Desert Eagle

[dangermouse]

For which Engine - UT3
Current Polycount - 5500 tris
Max Polycount - 5000(ish)
Texture Size - 2k
Description of background information on piece - Tidy but well used Desert Eagle
Where are you looking to receive criticism - Modeling and normal mapping
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Hi guys. This is the gun I partially hijacked someone elses thread about, sorry for that!!

Basically this is my first real attempt at doing a quality game model. Not really going so well....

I'm trying to work to about 5000 tri's, that's about half of what the weapons in UT3 seem to be, and this would be duel-wielded in my imaginary world.

Basically I seem to be alright with the modeling, but I'm struggling when it comes to getting good edge definition, you'll notice I have a few edge loops where my instincts tell me aren't needed, and I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to normal maps.

Okay, I lie, I do know about normal maps, I know how they work, I know how to bake them, etc, but I don't know what to do when it comes to "up-rezing" my gun to bake a normal map from...

Okay, long irritating post, I apologize, but I am begging for help here and am fulling willing to take any advice on board.

Thanks!!

[TheCorey]

I've recently read somewhere that they used 5k tris for the enforcer because you can carry two those and about 7k tris for the rest of the weapons.
But UT3 can run well with pretty high poly counts as long as you don't slap a too complicated material on it.

As for saving polys and what to do with the normal map: you've modeled the cut in the screws, I think that could go in a normal map. Perhaps those ripples in the back could too.
You could also save some polys on handle.

[Dennispls]

Well there is a lot of optimisation that you can do on the grip for example.
Also when you hear about polycounts of other weapons, don't assume it is alright to up your polycount just because you can.
You should always go for the most efficient way.
Normalmapping a gun can be handy since there are lots of little parts and ridges that you can fake with a normalmap.
There are some threads here about guns and normalmaps
i suggest you check them out

[dangermouse]

Okey dokey, I think I follow guys

If I'm right, basically what i'm working on now is mid res, so i'll save out 2 versions of my gun and then:

1) Go for broke in one file and bevel out my edges, refine my curves, add grip texture etc
2) In the other file simplify it, remove things like notches in the bolts, fins on the sides etc
3) Bake me some maps.

Hopefully this weekend I'll have some time to read through the forums in detail, but does my 1,2,3 breakdown sound like a good starting point from here?

[ChrisB]

its a good start dangermouse, the grip looks like it has too many polys in it though, and those angled slits on the upper back of the gun could really do with being in the normal map.

Generally normal map details are perfect for areas of the model that dont affect the profile of it, as normal maps don't add anything to the profile. Thats something to think about when you make your low poly model,

for instance, the grip area is totally enclosed and doesn't affect the side profile of the pistol at all, so it can be very low poly detail. Its the same deal with the slits at the back.

A handy trick when making your low poly model is to apply a totally flat black unshaded material to it every now and then, this way you can see the outline clearly, this will show you any areas that are too low poly.

My work flow for making a pistol is so:
-low poly model (nice clean quad if possible) geometry, (it makes it easier to create high poly with a clean mesh model)
-high poly model, created from the low poly
-rendering and testing of the normal map
-rendering the AO
-making the diffuse starting with the AO
-making the specular
-optimisation of the low poly

the general rule for making the high poly model from the low poly one, is using Turbosmooth,

Apply the turbo smooth to the newly created high poly mesh, make sure the model is all 1 smoothing group, unless you want really hard edges...
Then areas that are deformed too much by the turbosmooth, you can add detail, like a chamfer on the edge. The higher density of polys on that edge means that the turbo smooth won't be able to deform it as much, therefore giving you a nice sharp normal mapped edge.

You will generally need to apply 1 smoothing group to all of the low poly model also, before you render to texture, or the normal maps won't look right.

After you've made a this high poly model, and started to test the normal map, you'll soon figure out what you can get away with on the normal map, and how best to achive the result you want with the high poly mesh.

As this if your first attempt at this don't be disheartened if it doesn't work out perfectly ! consider this as a test for the process, then your next model you will be in a great position to do things better.

[dangermouse]

Wow, that was an amazing mini walkthrough there, I think I finally get this!!!

Just one eency question. Turbosmooth? Is that a 3ds term? Im using Maya, and theres just mesh smooth, with subdivides the geometry and averages the verts. Is that the same thing?

[ChrisB]

oh yea, i've not used maya much, all turbosmooth does is subdivide things... think it's the same..

[dangermouse]

Well, there goes my entire weekend, I'm gonna start this from scratch... It's gonna be fun I think!

I need the practice, and now that I know this model a bit better I should be better prepared.

I'm gonna post almost every single step I go through here, so hopefully I get better and avoid too many more stuffups, and maybe it'll help others if they've made the same mistakes I have.

Time to get a good nights sleep to prepare

[dangermouse]

My brain is officially exploding .

I made a hi res, just did one part. Got it looking su-weet.

It took an entire day of testing and tweaking, but I got a normal map baked out that just looks SO nice in Maya.

Exported my mesh, imported it into UE3, and like an excited little school boy started assembling my material.

Attached ire screen grabs from both Maya and UE3.

*sigh*

This is a breakdown of the bake settings from Maya in case I've cocked something up there:
File format: Targa
Map space: Tangent Space
Search Method: closest to envelope

I've used smooth edge normals on all of my geometry.

Any ideas? Been stuck here for hours. I'm SO close!!!

Incidentally in case it was a geometry problem i tried flattening out all the fins to a single poly, and in Maya it still looked good, but in UE3, it looked more like a light grayscale diffuse map.... If you still think my geometry might be to blame I'll recreate that test and post screens of that....

[Tiros]

Well, if not the mesh triangulation.. smoothing-groups?