AS-50 Rifle

[DaveW]

Yet you still haven't given a reason why N-gon usage is wrong, you've just called it lazy and forced your workflow onto me. You're the person acting like an arrogant cock. I don't want supportive comments, I want crits on my work like Requiem gave. I appreciate people wanting me to use normal maps to begin with, but after I said no to them that should've been it. Still, at least they weren't acting as arrogant as you now are.

[chrizz1]

well this thread has got sour, I dont think your workflow is wrong but just seems weird that you are disreguarding well used techniques. Your model dose have alot of non-gons in but if the engine likes it I dont suppose it really matter, but dont take my word for itIm just a -200 poster nipper!

[DaveW]

It has indeed. Well, I enjoy modelling/skinning so I don't want to simulate the painted lighting with a normal/specular map - I don't have much regard for it being super-optimised since really, you can chuck anything at most engines and it makes very little difference.

N-gons can be an issue sometimes, but as long as they aren't causing smoothing errors due to how the program is triangulating the mesh (which can easily be fixed in Max) then it makes no difference at all when you export, and I find it makes UV mapping and texturing easier because the UV is clearer. I wouldn't go into someone's topic and start telling them to use n-gons and then call them arrogant for disagreeing with me, though.

[TwiiK]

I'm not going to get into this discussion because I'll probably forget I posted in this thread and never find my way back here again.

I just want to say that I think the model looks awesome. I've hated normal maps from day one and I support Dave in his decision not to use one. They end up looking like shiny, melted plastic most of the time, and even though some games have started getting it right now, I still don't think they have a place on sharp edged metalic objects like a gun.

On the texture side I would probably want to see some more green in there.

Take this image for instance: http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/SHOTSHOW2005_AccuracyInternationalAS50Rifle_2.jpg

I also think Talon's response was a bit harsh seeing as he's a staff member here (not sure what that is, but I'm guessing some sort of admin) and there will always be people posting here using techniques which he does not approve of, and the best thing he can do is to give constructive input on why he thinks they should consider another way of doing things.

Personally I think the wireframe is much more pleasant to look at without it being triangulated, and if Dave says he's never experienced any problems with ngons then I don't see the point of connecting every vert just for the sake of doing it. It does take a small amount of time which adds up, and I'm sure you'll actually save time by going back and doing it the one time you actually encounter a problem with ngons.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by TwiiK

They end up looking like shiny, melted plastic most of the time, and even though some games have started getting it right now, I still don't think they have a place on sharp edged metalic objects like a gun.

Indeed the normal/specular combination it does most of the time, often because most people strongly over exadurate either or both. (notice I said most of the time... I dont want a flame party here mind you...)

And N-gons have never been a problem for me when importing models into games. I have yet to encounter it. And if I do how hard can it be to go back and connect some edges and re-export?

Anyways, I think the gun looks brilliant though I give Requiem right in both of his remarks on the metal color.. some color is good slight red/orange in combination with blues is good. Slight beeing the keyword here. It needs to be turned down to a level that you think that the color is almost gone in PS - then its about right in my experince.

[bitmap]

i agree with dave w with this one.
if it doesnt matter to the game if the mesh has ngons. who cares? i mean. he probably took care of how the triangulation would react, in max. because in max you can retriangulate something just conecting verts and whatnot. and yeah. for unwrap puprposes it way easier to have ngons.
He's just doing this for his own fun, so there's no point in a telling him how to have fun, if its all the same in the end.
It only matter to have a nice mesh when you are making hipoly models. but even then, ngons are ok. i use them all the time. has long as the mesh subdivides well, its all good

[requiem2d]

I've read through this whole thread and honestly don't see what the fuss is about.

I agree that Talon's comment could have been worded differently as it seems to have triggered off the rest of the argument (also seems as if previous issues between you two had some sort of effect here, judging by Talon's reply on a previous mesh).

Dennis & Glynn, no need to jump in to be honest. "it's that you sound like an arrogant cock" or "Attract bees with honey, son. Put down that vinegar." won't get us anywhere and will likely just throw more fuel on the fire. Staff is here to deal with members that fall outside of the rules. If you feel someone is acting inapproriately and the rules are not elaborate enough for the given issue, you are free to contact staff or just move on to the next thread without wasting your time (i.e. not replying to people that in your opinion are non-appreciative of criticism).

Thread locked as the constructive criticism has seemed to have reached its peak. See you in the finished pieces forum.