AS-50 Rifle

[Talon]

Originally Posted by DaveW

It's not like Ngons make any difference once it's compiled. But you could say that about any gun, "chuck full of triangles and lit realtime". That's quite an ignorant comment to make...

Well, no, it's not really, although it was probably a bit blunt. Ngons are sloppy modeling, really, and tris aren't comparable because they're what everything gets converted into.

And they do make a difference, for example, the engine we use here at work doesn't accept ngons at all when exporting models, they'll just get ignored (and another example, all of the ngons (which was quite a substantial amount of your model) on one of your weapon models that I unwrapped a while ago was totally gubbed when it was imported into a different 3D app - I had to reconstruct about 50% of the mesh).

[Dennispls]

I really miss some more ambient occlusion.
Right now some of the parts on top of the rest just share the same look in texture... they kinda blend in.
With some AO it would bring those details out a bit more

[requiem2d]

Think you're a tad strong on the blue, but otherwise nice variations.

[DaveW]

Originally Posted by Talon

Well, no, it's not really, although it was probably a bit blunt. Ngons are sloppy modeling, really, and tris aren't comparable because they're what everything gets converted into.

And they do make a difference, for example, the engine we use here at work doesn't accept ngons at all when exporting models, they'll just get ignored (and another example, all of the ngons (which was quite a substantial amount of your model) on one of your weapon models that I unwrapped a while ago was totally gubbed when it was imported into a different 3D app - I had to reconstruct about 50% of the mesh).

Blunt and ignorant.

Once you export a model from a program it gets converted, the engine shouldn't have any idea what the original geometry was like. If you're talking about my AR70, it imported perfectly fine into CSS, so obviously N-gons aren't as bad as you say. The reason it was gubbed was probably because of the format I sent it in.

Just to show you, I exported it and put it into Milkshape 3d (which only supports triangles):

As you can see, it completely destroyed the model and it's now unusable.

[Dennispls]

Originally Posted by DaveW

Blunt and ignorant.

Once you export a model from a program it gets converted, the engine shouldn't have any idea what the original geometry was like. If you're talking about my AR70, it imported perfectly fine into CSS, so obviously N-gons aren't as bad as you say. The reason it was gubbed was probably because of the format I sent it in.

I don't like your tone here DaveW.
First of all talon is right. How hard can it be to add a few cuts to finish off the geometry instead of relying to any exporter.
Sure some exporters will convert everything into triangles, but most of them just do that randomly which may cause smoothing errors.
Talon mentioned that everything will get converted to triangles eventually, so calling him ignorant (on export possibilities) is quite a harsh statement.
Talon knows what he is talking about.

[DaveW]

How hard? Not very, it's just unecessary. I've never noticed smoothing errors on my exports, and ones that were there have remained intact (there was one that was seemingly impossible to fix on my AR70 sight). Max automatically triangulates every surface, it's not done randomly by the exporter. You can even edit it in the Edit Poly modifier.

As you can see from my above post, it exported fine. I can send you the .MS3D or .SMD if you want and you can see that there are no problems with the export.

[Dennispls]

Dave its not that i dont believe you that it might work and or work pretty often, its just the fact that you try to have an answer for everything without even taking what someone else says into consideration.

[glynnsmith]

Aye. It's not that, this time, your method of working has worked no problem - it's that you sound like an arrogant cock.

I ALWAYS find that avoiding n-gons and splitting the mesh up myself, rather than letting the engine do it, is always THE way to go because you get a better understanding of how your model is divided and I almost always find that it helps guide me when I texture.

On the other hand, it's looking good and it's looking better with each post you make, but I almost didn't comment because of the tone you're taking with everyone. If you're going to disregard people's crits (on your art, your technique or your personal character when on the forum), then what's the point of posting here?

Attract bees with honey, son. Put down that vinegar.

[DaveW]

Originally Posted by glynnsmith

Aye. It's not that, this time, your method of working has worked no problem - it's that you sound like an arrogant cock.

I ALWAYS find that avoiding n-gons and splitting the mesh up myself, rather than letting the engine do it, is always THE way to go because you get a better understanding of how your model is divided and I almost always find that it helps guide me when I texture.

On the other hand, it's looking good and it's looking better with each post you make, but I almost didn't comment because of the tone you're taking with everyone. If you're going to disregard people's crits (on your art, your technique or your personal character when on the forum), then what's the point of posting here?

Attract bees with honey, son. Put down that vinegar.

What tone? If you read the topic, you'd see that only 3 main criticisms were given. Use normal maps, add more variation, and stop using n-gons. I don't like Normal maps, and said I didn't like them, which some people didn't seem to like so I had to firmly say I didn't want to use them. More variation I recongised and added accordingly. N-gons make no difference.

On the N-gons, the engine isn't doing it. How the model was made makes no difference to the game engine, it's all converted into triangles in the end. Just like it makes no difference what modifiers you used to make a particular model - the engine loads it as triangles just the same. Working with N-gons makes it much easier to UV map and makes for a cleaner mesh to work with. You might prefer not to use them, fair enough - the difference is that I'm not telling anyone my workflow is better and that they shouldn't split up their mesh manually. So it appears that just because I use a different workflow to you and I'm pointing out someone is incorrect in stating that it's fundamentally wrong I'm arrogant. That makes no sense.

[glynnsmith]

Originally Posted by DaveW

Hi Glynn.

First off, let me say that I do appreciate everyone's insightful critiquing, but I have chosen not to take it based on one sole reason - The target engine has already shown nice results with my lazy n-gon usage.

It's ace to hear that my stuff's getting better with each post I make. Thanks for the kind words; I surely need them after so many people have voiced their discontent towards me as to the way I've unappreciatively conducted myself thus far.

That would have been a perfect reply.

Keep getting ultra-defensive about people critting you (I offered advice, I critted you and I offered supportive comments and you've white knuckle-gripped onto my critique with that attitude) and no one will bother you again.

Keep the vinegar. It goes well with that chip on your shoulder.