[WIP] The Concord Coach + Horse

[TheGoozah]

Hey there...

i'm rather new here so a shot introduction. I'm a Digital Arts and Entertainment student specializing in Game Development. This year we are starting to make next-gen game assets.
As Game Developer we focus on hardsurface models, but I'm always trying to push the edge if possible. Oke, enough about that. Our next assignment is a next-gen vehicle. Because it is always good to have some unique models in your portfolio I choose to make The Concord Coach. I think it will be great fun to model such "on-first-sight easy model", but bring it to life. I'm going for the old look btw, not the new fancy stuff



BUT, i want to push the edge with this one... I'm going to skip some sleep and learn myself some organic sculpting stuff. I'll try to sculpt a horse and create an ingame model out of it. Not sure if it will work out great because i've never sculpted before so...
Here is my quick base mesh. I'll try to sculpt it this weekend


I hope you guys will follow this topic and C&C me alot It's always great to learn from more skilled persons. So... let's start with this topic, and i'll post my entire process right here

Grtz

[Bek]

You might find it easier to sculpt the eyes if you add topology in that area, look on say a human head base mesh how the topology loops around the eyes rather than just continuing as rings of relatively even quads. If you're using Zbrush though it's fiarly simple and pain free to do some sculpting, then bring the mesh back into max, change the topology, and take the model back into zbrush, retaining all the sculpted detail.

Since you're new to sculpting do read some simple tutorials first, using Layers\Subtools is a big one, and the biggest tip you can know is always work at the lowest subdivision possible. First you adjust the primary forms (so the basic shape of the horse), then if you need more polygons to beging the secondary forms, you step up, but work as low as possible. If you start sculpting large forms on high subdiv levels the result generally looks more muddy / dull - plus it's more work. So use subdivisions to your advantage, they're amazing.

And if you're using Zbrush there will be heaps of 'cheat' ways of doing things you'll find that will make creating weird shapes so much easier. For example I imagine the horse will have a harness around it, in Zbrush you can simply use the masking tools to mask certain areas on the horse (in the shape of the harness) and 'extract' a mesh from this selection. After playing with the extraction depth you'll have a decent harness that conforms to the shape of the horse.

Have fun, interesting thing to model! You're going to make the base for the coach in max then detail it in a sculpting program I assume? Oh and where are you studying?

[TheGoozah]

Hey thx for the great reply!! I study in Kortrijk in Belgium. You know it?

Because we are going to use mudbox in a few months, to model more organic stuff (rocks, damaged pilars, etc) I thinking to use mudbox now as well. I've heard Zbrush has some awesome features, but it is also more difficult to learn... And because time is always limited for us it's maybe better to learn and work with mudbox. I dont know if it's possible to cheat as much as in Zbrush One of the shapes I still have to define is the tale, but I was thinking of sculpting it right away to achieve a more dynamic shape and flow.

I'll try to change the topology around the eye , but some tutorials I watched on the net used base meshes with the eyeloops. They just sculpted the eye in mudbox and it looked great to. I'm just asking because the eye of a horse is something weird.


About the coach... I was thinking of modeling the high-poly in Max because it is a rather static shape. I'll maybe import it in mudbox to add the leather parts (rolled-up "curtains"), but 95% of the model I would create in max. After texturing the coach I could add the correct normal map info extracted from the texture itself (wood for example) with crazybump.

Thank you for the great reply again!!

[Bek]

I tried mudbox trial and zbrush trial when I was first starting out and just clicked with Zbrush, it just seemed like the better product to me, feature and performance wise, I thought it was pretty easy to pick up too, the unusual UI is actually really well thought out.

With the horse eye, I was thinking eye loops would work better like this? Just so you can get higher resolution in the places that need it and have an easier edge flow to sculpt the rounded shapes on.



With the tail, you could just create the basic topology in max and sculpt in mudbox, I'm assuming cause you're familiar with max you'd be able to get the basic shape with decent topology (mainly just an even distribution of quads) down without as much hassle as in a new program. In ZBrush when sculpting folds in things like clothing or flesh there's a gravity modifier for your brush that 'pulls' your stroke down to mimic gravity which works well, so see if mudbox has something similar for the tail, I'm sure it would.

If you can do the high poly for the coach in max go for it, After learning mudbox you might find it easier to do some high poly stuff in that though. Especially for me texturing in Zbrush is so much easier than exporting the uv layout to Photoshop and shoehorning in textures into the uv space.

oh one more thing, It's hard to tell from the max screenie but you might need more edgeloops on the ears, if there isn't though geometry there when you go up a subdivision with smoothing enabled (assuming mudbox works the same way zb does) the ears will just smooth out, losing their shape.

Never heard of Kortrijk, but I'm from Australia so no surprise there

[TheGoozah]

Just started to sculpt with mudbox. I stayed with mudbox just because i'll have to use it in a few months, and it's always good to get the feel of the program in advance
I'll look into that gravity tool... I think I know what you mean and it can indeed be very handy!
I created the base mesh for the tail and the neck hair... didn't go fancy though, just got the main shape in there so... It will prob work out fine (still need to know how to sculpt hair and GOOD texture like skin or fur)... I also adjusted the eye a bit, but i still need to model the correct shape. But that is for the next passes.
So, here a quick WIP (1 hour or so ^^) as the first pass... Still need to modify the front legs, pows, ears, rear and some small part. Then I'll prob go a level higher and add more detail...

C&C welcome offcourse. Allways beter to adjust in an early stage

BTW, quick question... Would you keep the hair (not the skin/fur texture) for a final pass in a separate layer? Or would you start sculpting the hair together with the rest of the body?

[Bek]

I'm not sure about the hair, I guess it would depend if you wanted it to be part of the sculpture (Like marble sculptures with hair) or use fibres (at least what they're called in zbrush) to paint areas? Fibres only show on render and can be tweaked to look like fur.

Looks pretty good so far, I don't know much about horses but it doesn't look wrong in any way. Perhaps the front legs look a little thing, but if they had fibres for fur that would change. And I'd keep as much as I could be bothered with in separate layers (mainly if I'm not certain on them) just so if I need to adjust them alone it's easy, saves having to redo entire sections).

[TheGoozah]

I want the hair to be part of the sculpt. So i can get the texture of it as a normal map on my low-poly mesh. Everything has to be in real-time eventually, so I can't use those rendering techniques.
I still have to work on the front legs and some other areas on this first pass. I will indeed try to work as much as possible with layers. It is indeed handy to revise some areas later on. Thanks

[TheGoozah]

Adjusted some parts... Going a level higher i think and i'll try to add more detail in it... Still wondering how much detail i'll really sculpt because it still is for ingame use so texture can do a lot.

[Benjammin]

Pretty good sculpt so far - something seems off with the forelegs, though. I think maybe the shoulder muscles. I have heaps of horse photos Ive taken myself that I can email to you - send me a PM if you're interested.
A horse's mane (neck hair) is typically longer than that, and hangs down rather than backward. Its very thick, heavy hair and has a lot of weight to it.

[TheGoozah]

Oke... I just changed some things on my sculpt. I tried to fix the shoulder part, changed some muscle definition where needed and tried to change the hair a bit.

Now, I'm wondering how much I should really sculpt because the textures will be the most important factor. Same with the hair... I really just wanted to give it a main shape and define the big hairlocks (like you would when you paint a portrait).
I'm even considering this almost done. I will define some shapes more, put some hard edges around some muscles and try to add a little bit of texture (but not going crazy) and define the hair a little bit.
But I'm prob not going to add alot of unique details... Just because it is for ingame use. Or don't you guys agree?



Just saw a minor error, will fix it right away
Big thanks to Benjammin again, who gave me some wonderful reference pictures. Cheers!