Normal Map issues of DEATH

subedei · 26-03-2008, 09:32 PM

Sorry about the dramatic title but the normal issues I am having are close to that level at this stage.

I should say first off, that I used zbrush originally for normal mapping but the seams were awful and some parts of the normal map would end up flipped so then I used 3ds max's normal mapping utility which worked better in some ways worse in the head as it was projecting the collar on the neck so I used the normal map of the had from the zbrush normal map.

But as you can see there are still issues with the face:

Also the seam is still monstrous:

And lastly these two issues are in other parts of the body:

Anybody know how to fix problems like these? Or where to look at least, any and all help would be appreciated lads.

Jonathan

thanoz · 27-03-2008, 12:49 AM

Looks like poor seam placement and not much else.

You have 2 obvious options.

1. Redo the UVs with better seam placement and low stretching, which likely means redoing a ton of other stuff unless you can find a way of using the current normal maps and re-sorting them around in Photoshop.

2. Band-aid fixit: Create a new layer in photoshop over your current normal map, then paint in the mid-blue/purple you find with your eyedropper in most flat areas. Use a soft edged brush at about 80% or higher, and paint right along the edge of the bad seams so it overflows a bit onto the normal map. Do that on all bad seams and basically you just won't have much of any normal map details in those areas.

If you go with option 1, you might end up with the exact results you wanted all along, flawless and beautiful. Or you might just lessen the problem and move it to different areas of the body....

If you go with option 2 (and you could end up doing both) you're 100% assured that you will not render out with seams, and that's a big deal. It's better in a render if part of the hair shows some wild normal map specular stuff and then it fades into a less interesting area and back out...rather than having a hard edge showing up in the render down the side of the skull.

subedei · 27-03-2008, 01:20 PM

Thanks for the feedback Thanoz.

Just in case someone can give more indepth feedback here is more renders

Here is more details:

Normal Map

UVMap

Low Poly and High Poly with Cage

Low Poly with Cage

Hi Poly

Low Poly

Normal Mapped

Probably a gizillion problems with the cage and the normal map as I am still a bit crap at this sort of thing

thanoz · 27-03-2008, 04:06 PM

One other option you can try is take your high res sculpt, export the mesh into Maya or whatever you're working in, and generate a normal map from Maya. It'll take like 30 minutes sometimes for Maya to render one out, that can give you improved results sometimes over Mudbox.

I'm afraid the UV mapping looks like a major main culprit though. Look how this guy lays out UVs (this guy has a really nice selection of stuff to learn from).
http://www.bobotheseal.com/portfolio...1_contract.jpg

Notice how on the head the seam is right down the middle of the towards the back. Even if you had a seam there, it would be running in-line with the hairs on the head. Other issues to note, look at how the fingers look super fat, rather than just using 2 planar maps of either side of the hands, he spreads out the fingers so that they only have one seam on the inside of the hand, rather than seams on the sides of all the fingers all the way a round.

26-03-2008, 09:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
subedei New Member 4 - 0	Normal Map issues of DEATH Sorry about the dramatic title but the normal issues I am having are close to that level at this stage. I should say first off, that I used zbrush originally for normal mapping but the seams were awful and some parts of the normal map would end up flipped so then I used 3ds max's normal mapping utility which worked better in some ways worse in the head as it was projecting the collar on the neck so I used the normal map of the had from the zbrush normal map. But as you can see there are still issues with the face: Also the seam is still monstrous: And lastly these two issues are in other parts of the body: Anybody know how to fix problems like these? Or where to look at least, any and all help would be appreciated lads. Jonathan

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27-03-2008, 12:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
thanoz Frequenter 106 - 28	Looks like poor seam placement and not much else. You have 2 obvious options. 1. Redo the UVs with better seam placement and low stretching, which likely means redoing a ton of other stuff unless you can find a way of using the current normal maps and re-sorting them around in Photoshop. 2. Band-aid fixit: Create a new layer in photoshop over your current normal map, then paint in the mid-blue/purple you find with your eyedropper in most flat areas. Use a soft edged brush at about 80% or higher, and paint right along the edge of the bad seams so it overflows a bit onto the normal map. Do that on all bad seams and basically you just won't have much of any normal map details in those areas. If you go with option 1, you might end up with the exact results you wanted all along, flawless and beautiful. Or you might just lessen the problem and move it to different areas of the body.... If you go with option 2 (and you could end up doing both) you're 100% assured that you will not render out with seams, and that's a big deal. It's better in a render if part of the hair shows some wild normal map specular stuff and then it fades into a less interesting area and back out...rather than having a hard edge showing up in the render down the side of the skull.

27-03-2008, 01:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
subedei New Member 4 - 0	Thanks for the feedback Thanoz. Just in case someone can give more indepth feedback here is more renders Here is more details: Normal Map UVMap Low Poly and High Poly with Cage Low Poly with Cage Hi Poly Low Poly Normal Mapped Probably a gizillion problems with the cage and the normal map as I am still a bit crap at this sort of thing

27-03-2008, 04:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
thanoz Frequenter 106 - 28	One other option you can try is take your high res sculpt, export the mesh into Maya or whatever you're working in, and generate a normal map from Maya. It'll take like 30 minutes sometimes for Maya to render one out, that can give you improved results sometimes over Mudbox. I'm afraid the UV mapping looks like a major main culprit though. Look how this guy lays out UVs (this guy has a really nice selection of stuff to learn from). http://www.bobotheseal.com/portfolio...1_contract.jpg Notice how on the head the seam is right down the middle of the towards the back. Even if you had a seam there, it would be running in-line with the hairs on the head. Other issues to note, look at how the fingers look super fat, rather than just using 2 planar maps of either side of the hands, he spreads out the fingers so that they only have one seam on the inside of the hand, rather than seams on the sides of all the fingers all the way a round.