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germball · 11-10-2008, 07:49 PM

pretentious? no not really. But my point was this.

It's true that Max has been a popular choice for may years. It became the main choice in the 90's purely down to cost and also that it only used windows. It was also easier to crack. The likes of Alias PowerAnimator, and Softimage3d were only on Unix until quite late in the 90's. And the software/hardware was not cheap. But despite these factors, surprisingly many of the big games titles back then, did not actually use Max.

The fact of the matter is that in terms of market, alot comes down to country and type of market. In the global Media&Entertainment market (incl games) Maya is dominant. Max is still there with good numbers, but perhaps not to the amount people think. Max still has a good foothold in games and is still used, but its nothing like it was, and its share is not really growing that much either.

It can often come down to the country and numbers of installed seats. In CAD arch vis, Max is totally dominant, with Maya hardly anywhere. In terms of the overall total 3D market both Max and Maya control most it, with XSI in a solid 3rd. I work with some ex-Alias and Autodesk people, so I'm confident of the facts.

A few years back when it was still Alias Maya, and Softimage had dropped their ball, it was Max and Maya that were essentially going head to head. Max lost this battle, and Maya started taking over the market. Max could of easily died off, but in reality it got most of is revenue from the CAD and arch vis market, which is the real back bone, and the core business of Adesk, which still very much kept it alive. Adesk bought there way back into the games and broadcast by buying Alias. The M&E section of the Autodesk business also only accounts for a very small part of its total revenue.

Max needs to jump along way to compete with Maya and Soft. Maya and XSI's environment is far more open ended as a platform to build and develop tools for. There are lots of plugins for Max, some of which are very good, but in my experiance, I am yet to meet a games tools programmer who actually likes Max.

Max is still out there and people continue to use it with great success it must be said, but if I was looking long term in the next round to consoles and technology step I'd have big doubts over Max and even Maya to some extent. Both packages are starting to look old.

Autodesk don't seem to have the savvy for Media&Entertainment. They are not really a media company, their business was not founded on it, and you often wonder about what goes on in their own M&E division. Maya has never really progressed that much since Alias was bought out. And Autodesk seem to be focusing Max and Maya in the core markets where each one is strongest. Just look at the more recent versions and feature lists.
All of Maya's features are aimed at the games and broadcast market.
Look at Max's and they are all aimed at improving the lighting, shading, rendering, which is essentially improving their overall rendering feature, which in turn is being aimed at the CAD and arch vis market. There's no major character features - rigging etc, no Nucleus, no ncloth, no major scripting support for languages like Python. And with the recent Max product split, this is not a package that is being aimed at games and broadcast anymore.

I do feel sorry for Max users. A great many people have stayed loyal to the package, despite the dominance of Maya, and yet I feel that Autodesk just haven't rewarded that loyalty. Debating which if the current software is best is pointless, as its an arguement that can never be won. A more interesting question would be, which one have you got your money on for a future investment. How confident can you be on the future of the product in terms of new versions, support, new features, etc etc.

11-10-2008, 07:49 PM	#19 (permalink)
germball Artist 54 - 4	pretentious? no not really. But my point was this. It's true that Max has been a popular choice for may years. It became the main choice in the 90's purely down to cost and also that it only used windows. It was also easier to crack. The likes of Alias PowerAnimator, and Softimage3d were only on Unix until quite late in the 90's. And the software/hardware was not cheap. But despite these factors, surprisingly many of the big games titles back then, did not actually use Max. The fact of the matter is that in terms of market, alot comes down to country and type of market. In the global Media&Entertainment market (incl games) Maya is dominant. Max is still there with good numbers, but perhaps not to the amount people think. Max still has a good foothold in games and is still used, but its nothing like it was, and its share is not really growing that much either. It can often come down to the country and numbers of installed seats. In CAD arch vis, Max is totally dominant, with Maya hardly anywhere. In terms of the overall total 3D market both Max and Maya control most it, with XSI in a solid 3rd. I work with some ex-Alias and Autodesk people, so I'm confident of the facts. A few years back when it was still Alias Maya, and Softimage had dropped their ball, it was Max and Maya that were essentially going head to head. Max lost this battle, and Maya started taking over the market. Max could of easily died off, but in reality it got most of is revenue from the CAD and arch vis market, which is the real back bone, and the core business of Adesk, which still very much kept it alive. Adesk bought there way back into the games and broadcast by buying Alias. The M&E section of the Autodesk business also only accounts for a very small part of its total revenue. Max needs to jump along way to compete with Maya and Soft. Maya and XSI's environment is far more open ended as a platform to build and develop tools for. There are lots of plugins for Max, some of which are very good, but in my experiance, I am yet to meet a games tools programmer who actually likes Max. Max is still out there and people continue to use it with great success it must be said, but if I was looking long term in the next round to consoles and technology step I'd have big doubts over Max and even Maya to some extent. Both packages are starting to look old. Autodesk don't seem to have the savvy for Media&Entertainment. They are not really a media company, their business was not founded on it, and you often wonder about what goes on in their own M&E division. Maya has never really progressed that much since Alias was bought out. And Autodesk seem to be focusing Max and Maya in the core markets where each one is strongest. Just look at the more recent versions and feature lists. All of Maya's features are aimed at the games and broadcast market. Look at Max's and they are all aimed at improving the lighting, shading, rendering, which is essentially improving their overall rendering feature, which in turn is being aimed at the CAD and arch vis market. There's no major character features - rigging etc, no Nucleus, no ncloth, no major scripting support for languages like Python. And with the recent Max product split, this is not a package that is being aimed at games and broadcast anymore. I do feel sorry for Max users. A great many people have stayed loyal to the package, despite the dominance of Maya, and yet I feel that Autodesk just haven't rewarded that loyalty. Debating which if the current software is best is pointless, as its an arguement that can never be won. A more interesting question would be, which one have you got your money on for a future investment. How confident can you be on the future of the product in terms of new versions, support, new features, etc etc.